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Home arrow.gif (67 bytes) Articles arrow.gif (67 bytes) Features arrow.gif (67 bytes) Maynard Ferguson: The King


Maynard Ferguson: The King

An interview with John La Barbera [Thanks to Dan Emberley for the submission]

ITG Journal, March 2000

Stan Kenton was an innovator, but in many ways, he was also a prophet. In 1947, Kenton signed an autograph for a young Maynard Ferguson, stating, "Maynard, someday you'll be king." Maynard is a pioneer who has inspired generations of trumpeters over the past 60 years. Doc Severinsen summed up the image many have of Maynard when he related the following story: "Charlie Barnet had promoted me to the place where I was playing featured things and a lot of the lead, and it took a toll on my lip. I got a blister, and I had to stop playing for several days so the blister would go away. I had heard about this young kid [Maynard] who was hanging around New York from Canada who was really good and could hit those high notes. Barnet said, 'Let's get him to take your place.' So, he came in and played everything that I had been playing - better than I played it and up an octave!" (From: MF Horn by William F. Lee III)

For many years, Maynard has presented clinics and shown great enthusiasm for music education wherever he tours. Now, he is excited about the new Maynard Ferguson Institute of Jazz at Rowan University in Glassboro, New Jersey, where a sizable scholarship fund in his name has been established. The institute, directed by former MF music director Denis DiBlasio, will offer baccalaureate and master's degrees in jazz studies.

After an amazing 60-year career, Maynard is still excited about the trumpet and is goin' strong, touring nine months each year. I recently caught up with the "Fox" at a recent performance with his Big Bop Nouveau band and came away with the same joy and wonderment I've experienced every time I have heard this phenomenal musician play. Those of us who have had the pleasure of hearing him in person can attest to his unbelievable control and sound in all registers, defying some conventional thinking about "upper register players."

Maynard is still the King with his youthful sense of humor and genuine love of music. When I stopped off at the band bus to renew our acquaintance, he immediately grabbed his new Firebird and proceeded to demonstrate this unique instrument with the energy and enthusiasm of a youngster with his first shiny trumpet.

JLB: I know you've been asked a zillion times, but why the trumpet?

MF: My mother wanted me to be a violinist because she had played piano and violin, but the minute she saw I really wanted to be a trumpet player, she gave in. Why concentrate on the trumpet? It just seemed the only thing to do. It's there; it just finds you. I still love to play the soprano sax. We have jokes on the band about my soprano sax technique in spite of my incredible mastery over the instrument. [much laughter]. I've played many instruments, and I liked them all.

JLB: How did you first start playing jazz?

MF: It was with my brother's band that was called Percy Ferguson and the Montreal High School Victory Serenaders. Oscar Peterson was the piano player.

JLB: I think there's a picture in your book.

MF: Yes, I think so. Oscar was doing Art Tatum stuff then, and he was brilliant! Commercially, I remember his left hand was a killer for a boogie-woogie piano player. I think he didn't like being labeled that. He might have liked it at the time because we were only 13 and 14 years old. We played all the time, and I worked on jazz improvisation every night of the week. One positive thing about having a six-night-a-week gig at 13 is that you can't get stumped just because you missed a note.

When I played at an amusement park all summer, the billing was "The Stan Wood Band with 13 Year Old Trumpet Sensation Maynard Ferguson, the Harry James of Montreal." Then it was "Rowland David and His Orchestra Featuring 14 Year Old Trumpet Sensation Maynard Ferguson." When I begged them to take stuff like that off, they thought it was so slick. I thought Harry James was terrific, and I didn't really deserve to be put in that category. When you are 13 and look 11, if you miss a high F, everybody says, "Isn't that adorable? He almost made it."

The arrangers were always transcribing trumpet solos, or I would do it myself. My featured tunes with those Canadian bands were things like Rex Stewart's Boy Meets Horn and Bunny Berigan's I Can't Get Started. Bunny's another one of my super-heroes. It's really funny. Personally, I think I sang it better when I was a kid because Bunny had that funny, high-pitched voice, and so did I because I was 13.

JLB: You've been singing that a long time.

MF: Yes. That was one of those things I would have never sung if it hadn't been a Bunny Berigan song. Some people think that's just as well. [laughter]

JLB: Who were your early influences?

MF: Of course, Louis Armstrong. Even before that, there was a guy named Johnny Lorando in town. I was playing from nine 'til two in the morning six nights a week when I was 14 or 15. He was a fine arranger and a Chu Berry style tenor saxophone player. I was playing in a French Canadian nightclub called the Palermo. It was in a rough part of town. You know what was right across the street? The slaughterhouse. My mother would go with me every night to this rough nightclub that had really talented French Canadian musicians on the bands. I absorbed a lot. About the same time, I heard Billy Eckstine's big band on radio.

JLB: That was one of the greatest bands of all times that never really got recorded.

MF: Not only was Billy a great singer but he played both the trumpet and valve trombone. Sarah Vaughan was his girl singer and Howard Magee was in the trumpet section. We became dear friends later on. He did a British television show in England, and I was the music director. Years before that, during the Birdland Dream Band days, he loaned me his valve trombone. I think I used the mouthpiece that was in the case. I said, "Oh, this is easy." So it was just fun to be able to use his horn. Years later, when Billy didn't have a band and wasn't playing the horn, he loaned me the trombone for the month at Birdland. Many years later, I was living in Windsor, England, and I was the music director for a weekend television show in London. It was a one hour and forty minute weekly special called the Simon Dee Show. The beauty is I still had his trombone. The band always got a good shot, and that was nice. I was 'a combination Doc Severinsen and Ed McMahon; I talked on the show and conducted the band. They had great guests, and one week Billy was featured. He joked, "I really only took this gig to get my trombone back." That was wonderful. The funny thing is, I did give it back to him.

JLB: When did you start getting interested in playing the upper register?

MF: I'll tell you how that started. Roy Eldridge and Harry James were among my heroes. All the big bands would come through Montreal and play at the Chez Maurice Danceland. Roland David, the manager was a fine tenor saxophone player, and he was able to bring in the jazz bands. He got so involved in business that he finally turned the bands over to me. That's why I was a band leader at 16.

JLB: So you'd open for these bands.

MF: Yeah. I opened for Basie, Ellington, Kenton, Gene Krupa, and a lot of other fine bands. The Kenton band was one of the best. When we opened for Stan, he arrived early and came out to listen to our band. Then he and Pete Rugolo hung out and commented on us. One thing I liked about Stan is that he brought arrangers out on the road who weren't players on the band.

JLB: Buddy Rich did that with me for years, and it was a great opportunity as a writer to hear the guys play. Manny Albam told me your parents used to follow you around behind the band bus?

MF: Oh, that's right because they were a retired school principal and a teacher.

JLB: They were very supportive, obviously.

MF: Tremendously.

JLB: Were they too protective, or did they just like the band?

MF: Oh, they liked the band, and they were too protective because when you're a 19-year-old there's the usual interest in girls. Your mom and pop get in the way of that.

JLB: How long did they follow you around?

MF: I can't remember; it was intermittent. In the beginning they weren't retired, so they were around more for the Jimmy Dorsey Band. Jimmy always loved having them around.

JLB: When you were a kid, were you interested in playing all the instruments? Did anyone ever tell you you're not supposed to play more than one?

MF: No. You know a lot of it was my innocence and instinct. There was no jazz school then. As a matter of fact, when I won a scholarship to the French Conservatory, I was warned by both trumpet teachers - a Canadian guy and Benny Baker, who flew up from New York every two weeks - that we were not to mention jazz. Our instrumental teachers always warned us not to mention jazz during our tests and so forth.

JLB: Really?

MF: Oh, yeah, we were forbidden. Of course, Benny Baker totally disagreed with that but just said, "Don't do it around here. Don't take the horn out of your case and start warming up with some bebop. That was in the early bebop days.

Eleven or twelve trumpet players were part of the scholarship program; that was marvelous. We all had private lessons. Now, of course, the conservatory has a marvelous jazz program. Later, I found out Benny told the other teacher, "Listen, as far as the Ferguson kid goes, don't even talk to him about embouchure."

JLB: Meaning yours was a natural embouchure?

MF: Yes, it was.

JLB: You were showing me your instrument, the Firebird. Was that horn your idea?

MF: Oh, yeah. It came from the Superbone, which is a combination slide and valve trombone. The Firebird is a slide and valve trumpet. It's difficult to devise a slide and valve trumpet that has all seven positions. Larry Ramirez at Leblanc figured it out, and the Firebird is the result. The one I used on my concert last night is the prototype that has a slide within a slide. Because it has all seven positions, it's great for the Indian music I play. The slide trumpet has a sensuous sound you can't get with the valves. By the way, if you hold the second valve down, you get a trumpet in A, or A-flat if you hold the first valve down while playing the slide. I laughingly say it's like having a capo on a guitar. The bell is bent up so the slide will clear. In its early form there were only four-and-a-half positions.

When I showed it to Dizzy Gillespie he said, "Hey, you copied my thing!" Dizzy was the one who bent the bell up. We were great friends. We both had a contract with a Swedish mute maker - his was in silver and mine was in gold. I lost mine once after the mutes weren't available anymore. Dizzy had one left, and he gave it to me. Sometimes I find myself protecting that more than my horns at the end of a gig.

JLB: Are you playing the Firebird a lot now?

MF: Yeah, I always use it when I play my Indian compositions. Occasionally I play the Superbone as well. I used to have both a slide and a valve trombone on stage at all times. I used to crack up the trombone players because I told them I would just grab onto the bell to find third position. That's how you teach a kid to find third position at his first trombone lesson. I used to make Slide Hampton laugh when I'd say it's one of the easier instruments to play. But, of course, it's not. The first time we recorded Stella by Starlight, Slide was on my band, and he played this fantastic solo. The arrangement started off with me on lead trombone playing just the melody for 16 bars. Slide figured with me standing up front it would be better if I played lead on just the melodic part. There were a couple of write-ups where they listed me on the trumpet and slide trombone, therefore many fans thought both of the trombone solos were mine. I would have had to woodshed it for a couple of years in order to copy Slide's great solo. Maybe I'd better stick to the valves. The fun part is I used to say, "I played lead trombone." So some people think lead trombone means you are the soloist.

JLB: So they thought Slide's solo was you playing?

MF: Yes, in a couple of reviews they wrote, "Trombone, Maynard Ferguson." Sorry about that one, Slide! Once, Slide and I did a job in Canada with an all-star Canadian band. He did the first half, and I did the second half. Then we came out and played together. I had mentioned how good I was on trombone - referring my sixteen bars. So Slide told the audience the story about Stella.

It's fun if you have a main instrument because there's always a sense of humor and a sense of freedom on the other ones. It's like a singer that finally gets a small dance part. If they get one little compliment, they think, "Yeah, I'm bad." For me it's the Indian raga things. I'm pretty good for a white boy from Montreal. If somebody compliments me, I just get so pleased with myself. I laugh to myself about how my ego gets out of control. If someone says, "Nice trumpet solo," my ego says, "Only nice, huh?" But if they say, "Nice soprano solo," then my ego says, "Oh, well, thank you!"

JLB: Did you decide on a solo that you would like published in the journal?

MF: Oh yes. I turned to the guys in my trumpet section a little for this. One of the solos they chose is Move. It has three trumpets playing the melody in three octaves. It's me, Clark Terry, and Clifford Brown. I thought that might be a nice one to publish. Now if you wanted something really out there, I'd pick Bob Grettinger's A Trumpet. I was involved in he writing only in the sense that Kenton was very artistic when it came to handling writers. So he made me room with Grettinger for two weeks on the road. Not one night, but two weeks. Rooming with me must have been his idea, and those two weeks as his roommate were amazing. It's interesting the way he composed. When I'd start to warm up, he'd sit down and listen. Finally, I realized what he was doing when he spoke up after a couple of times and said, "Could you play that again?" We all have funny little habits and quirks that are individual to us when we're warming up. For a saxophone player, it might be trying a new reed. Usually, trumpet players are involved in the middle range first, then the bottom, and then the top. So, he sat there patiently, and all of a sudden he'd say, "Oh, let me hear that again." You talk about an instant transcriber. He would take that phrase and have the orchestra do something totally alien to it, and it would give a whole new meaning to the phrase - it became something different than what you do every day in the warm-up. I can't remember the name of the album.

JLB: What was your first horn?

MF: My first horn was an Abbot. Yes sir, top of the line! [much laughter] My father bought it at Pete's Music in Montreal, Canada.

JLB: Stock mouthpiece?

MF: Oh, yeah, sure. I think it was made in Czechoslovakia. It's long gone, of course. I'd already been playing piano and violin. He also bought my brother a C melody saxophone, as it was called then now it's a collector's item. It turns out that they were good horns. The Abbot was definitely not a great horn.

JLB: Well, it got you started. When you went on Charlie Barnet's band, or when you finally went professional, what kind of horn were you playing?

AW: I went through a lot of horns; I was a spoiled brat. I remember a teacher at Pete's Music named Harry Nelson. I smashed the horn in front of my parents because the high C didn't come out. I went through the English Besson, which is the same as Boosey and Hawkes. I used it for a short while. Then I felt it was too small for me, after I told my dad it was perfect. A lot of the things I'm really known for and recorded on in the United States are on the Conn Constellation. Carl Fischer still plays it.

JLB: Everyone's trying to buy those things today.

MF: Back then everybody thought of them as a Mac truck.

JLB: I couldn't play one.

MF: I think they were chrome-plated, weren't they? It looked like a Cadillac.

JLB: They lasted forever; you couldn't kill them.

MF: That's right. If you dropped them, you'd be amazed if it got a dent.

JLB: You probably sold a million of those horns for Conn. I remember I bought one. Everybody went out and bought a Conn after hearing you play.

MF: When I went to England, I left Conn and went with the British Band Corporation, which is both English Besson and Boosey and Hawkes, where I designed my first trumpet. They called it the Liberator. On my return to the U.S. a few years later, I signed with Vito Pascucci, who is the president and owner of Holton, Leblanc, and Martin. His craftsman created the MF horns and other instruments such as the Superbone and Firebird. I still work closely with Larry Ramirez, chief design technician at Holton.

JLB: You played a Martin Committee, right?

MF: That's right.

JLB: Have you tried the new Martin Committee?

MF: I tried it at a show, and I thought it was very good.

JLB: But you still prefer the Holton?

MF: Of course, it's my own design, and I like the 0.468 bore. The medium-large Martin was the one that Miles played. Every now and then he'd try my horn. He was the first one to use lacquer in a color. Once he gave me a green Martin with a medium bore. I started playing my bebop solos on that. My theory at the time was I didn't have to put as much air into it when I wasn't playing 016 or something like that. -So by going with the smaller bore, I could relax a little more and play bebop. Then I started really getting used to it because it was five sets a night, six nights a week, for two weeks at Birdland. That was when Miles had Coltrane and Cannonball on the front line. So he listened to me for two weeks, and then he became Miles Davis again and took the horn back. He didn't loan it to me, you know; he gave it to me.

JLB: Then he took it back. That's Miles.

MF: Then he started playing it again.

JLB: I noticed the other night that you still incorporate Indian music into your performances.

MF: Yes, I do. I think mine was the first band to do that. My first attraction to Indian music was due to the music of Ravi Shankar. I was getting into it at the same time my wife was reading J. Krishnarnurti.

We traveled in Europe and then India, where we met a musician named Vemu Mukunda. He's a great vina player from Bangalor, and he introduced us to the Sathya Baba school system. It's probably the finest school system in India, and there's no tuition. It's very hard for a student to get into these schools. They have to be really qualified. The students are wonderful. The combination of those things and the fact that he wanted me to teach there drew me to India. They all were into wanting to play our kinds of music, so I organized a program. They have a gorgeous stadium, and it embraces all the faiths. There's a huge, beautiful painted statue on the side of the hill next to the field. There's a portrait of Jesus with the lambs. Next to Jesus are Buddha, Krishna, and Parsees. They consider all of them to be equal. It's very ecumenical.

JLB: When you hit the United States after that hiatus you really made a big impact.

MF: We had a really good band in Europe, and we traveled for a long time. For some reason, we did very well in Italy. After we got back, the movie Rocky came out. We were the first big band in 30 years to have a pop hit [Gonna Fly Now].

JLB: Are you still practicing?

MF: You know what? I used to go for a month without playing and then be ready to play in three days. Now I practice when I'm off. I understand the athleticism of my instrument more than perhaps most people that play the instrument do. That it is an athletic endeavor that happens to be an art form. Of course, you know that.

JLB: I remember Dizzy used to say, "Some days you win, some days the trumpet wins. Then you die and the trumpet wins." Do you do a regular warmup?

MF: I'm totally undisciplined in warm-ups. I just heard the other day that Doc Severinsen has a two hour warm up that he does every time. That's not possible with the itinerary I have. But I definitely don't go cold.

When Slide Hampton and I did that all-star Canadian band, I walked in while he was telling a story about me. He said, "The Fox and I were at Birdland, and we had five shows a night. The first show was Miles, and when he came off, we'd hit our first of five shows at 10:00 p.m. We'd be trying to warm up and not give in and go listen to Miles. But the Fox would walk into Birdland about 10 minutes before 10 o'clock, take the horn out of the case, and he'd smash the mouthpiece in and say, 'Okay, let's do it!' and really be popping on the opening tune." He told this marvelous story about how Maynard didn't need to warm up.

I lived in Millbrook, New York, in those days and had a 90-minute drive to Birdland every night. So I said, "Slide, I gotta tell you the truth. On the way in, I play my trumpet with my right hand and steer with my left hand. I stay in the slow lane and take my time." Of course, when I got to New York and parked my car, I put the horn away. it had never occurred to me that guys were saying, "He just runs in, puts the mouthpiece in, and there it is!" Sometimes I'd put on a tape or the jazz radio channel and play along. So I'd be very well warmed up. Perhaps more than I do now.

JLB: I know you often talk about the importance of stance to performing well.

MF: Yes, for me it's what I call standing consciously. I've done it standing correctly for so many years. Adolfo Acosta, our current lead player, said some of my best lessons last about a minute and a half. He's referring to when I correct their feet and the Miles Davis story. I gave them a lesson on the importance of the stance.

JLB: Did Bill Chase get that stance from you when he played on your band?

MF: I think so. He was working on his chops at that time and constantly improving so when he got on Woody's band he was playing great lead. It's funny; he got more notoriety than I did when he was in Las Vegas. [laughter]

JLB: What Miles story were you referring to?

MF: Well, Miles and I were each doing five sets a night at Birdland until four in the morning. I'd been listening to his set, and he cracked a high F. That never bothered me with Miles at all because of his creativity and genius. After the set he came over to me at the bar and said, "Hey Fox, what am I doing wrong?" That was during the period when he was working out in the gym and boxing with Archie Moore, so he was in great shape. I said, "Miles, it's your feet." Before I could go on to explain he said, "My feet?" and walked away. Two intermissions later he came over and said, "Hey Fox, what was that bull about my feet?" So I said, "Miles you're obviously physically together, but your stance is not right. I went on to explain that the feet and the stance are key to the coordination of your entire body. So there he was taking a lesson, and for him that was very difficult. So here's the kicker to even the score. About a year later at the Chicago Theater the bill was my band and Miles with his great group including Coltrane and Cannonball. I ended my set with that bullfighter thing Slide wrote for me called “0le.” I came off stage and saw Miles standing in the wings. He said, "Hey Fox, let me go to your dressing room." So, I'm wondering what's up. When we get to the dressing room, he said, "You know that “0le” number you do with all those high notes and stuff you do, it's really great." Well I was really flattered 'cause it was Miles saying this. Remember, he and I had never had a negative moment, so I figured it had to come sooner or later. So, he said, "You know when it goes into the vamp? Right there, that's some boring stuff." I asked him what he meant? He said, "You know what it is? It's Do. You just want those people to love you, and you get up there and can't wait to play Do." Of course, he meant the tonic. Then he said, "You know what you need?" Now, at this point I realize he's really giving me a lesson. So he continued with, "You've got to go out and say 'the hell with them!' Play any other note, but don't give 'em Do." So I took it as one of the best lessons I ever got. I remember taking out the record and realizing I play Do a lot.

JLB: Do you still use the same mouthpiece that you've been using for a while?

MF: It's basically been the same for the last five or six years, except Dave Monette made the bore bigger. I play anywhere from a 19 to a 13 throat. I was using a 13 for a while. It gets rid of that high-note edge when you don't want to use a bigger bore.

JLB: How about the cup itself?

MF: The cup itself is still the same V cup. In the last couple of years, I finally gave in to putting a slight grip on the mouthpiece.

JLB: A little edge? Something to grab onto?

MF: Yeah, but I've only been doing that for 3 years. Dave makes all my mouthpieces, and he said, "Are you sure you want that?" I said, "Yeah, put a little on. Let me see what happens."

JLB: How about maintenance?

MF: I am a fanatic about this. I like my horn clean so I can feel it vibrate in my hand. A lot of guys don't like a clean horn - just like sax players don't like to clean the neck of their horn - but I'm just the opposite. Especially the lead pipe and mouthpiece bore. I like to flush the horn out every night. It's not just that the buildup changes the bore. I like it clean to get the most vibration out of the metal. For valve oil, I just use what comes along.

JBL: I remember Dizzy telling me he’d clean his every night, so it was the same horn consistently every time he picked it up.

MF: That's absolutely correct.

JLB: What's new and exciting that's coming up?

MF: One of the most exciting things we've done on the road is visit Thailand. You know the king of Thailand plays alto saxophone.

JLB: Yes, I know. He's a great guy. Jonah Jones had a great story about him. (May 1999 ITG Journal). When did you travel to Thailand?

MF: A year ago and two years ago. Everybody talks about the protocol of never touching the king and not shaking hands. When we arrived, he was dressed just like an American - no Yule Brenner look from The King and I. He walked out and shook my hand while his court - there were about 20 people all gasped.

JLB: He broke protocol for you?

MF: He shook my hand and said, "I have so many of your records." I just couldn't help it, but I started laughing because it was the last thing I expected from the King of Thailand. That's a great scene I have over there. He's a strong sponsor of jazz bands and music education. He asked me to do a clinic, and we added four guys to our band from the school. They were the best teenagers from the school's four bands. Because I have a small big band, we could do that. My wife and I have been invited there again to be guests of honor at the celebration before his sixth cycle. That means something very special. He's the world's oldest living monarch, and we've become great friends. There is some talk of bringing the band this time as well.

JLB: There will be some great pictures there.

MF: Ed Sargent, my close friend and road manager, has some great pictures of me and the king. There's a picture of him playing alto saxophone. One side of the rehearsal room has state of the art recording equipment. My band is on the other side, and the king and I are sitting in two chairs in between. Pictures are never allowed to be taken of the king inside the palace. The first thing we did with him was a jam session at the palace. He and his old friends play in sort of an old-fashioned Dixieland band style. The king had gifts - gold pins - for every guy in the band. He gave me a special one and a beautiful book on Thailand.

Of course, we all had the protocol lecture. When you leave the room, you walk backwards. Matt Wallace said, "Excuse me, I must use the bathroom," and walked out straight. All the court gasped, and the king laughed.

JLB: Well I know its time for you to go, so I want to thank you on behalf of ITG, and probably every trumpet player in the world, for giving us so much enjoyment over the years!

MF: You're very welcome John.